00;00;00;00 - 00;00;40;09
Erica Machulak
Welcome back to the Hikma Collective Podcast. I'm Erica Machulak, founder of Hikma, and I am delighted to bring you highlights from our Hikma Office Hours conversation with Camille Callison. I first met Camille in the University of British Columbia Emergency room, where she generously agreed to follow through with an interview with me after breaking her wrist. I was writing an article for the National Endowment for the Humanities about her truth and reconciliation work long before Hikma was a sparkle in my eye.
00;00;40;11 - 00;01;10;26
Erica Machulak
Camille is someone who has definitely upped my level of literacy in talking about decolonization and reconciliation work. By the way, for those of you for whom those concepts are relatively new, we will include links in the show notes. But high level, since the summer of 2021, hundreds of mass graves have been identified at Canadian Indian residential schools, and these sites likely represent only a fraction of the thousands of indigenous people who were killed.
00;01;10;29 - 00;01;42;23
Erica Machulak
Callison has been working to change the system since long before this new media attention. Ever since leading the release of the Canadian Federation of Library Associations Truth and Reconciliation Report and Recommendations in 2017, she has worked with libraries and universities across North America to unravel the colonial biases embedded in their practices. So what you'll hear today are highlights from our conversation in fall 2021 about Indigenous ways of knowing and how we collaborate and partner effectively to drive change.
00;01;42;26 - 00;01;49;01
Erica Machulak
Hope you enjoy.
00;01;49;03 - 00;02;23;16
Erica Machulak
We talk about Hikma Office Hours, this is a new series that we've started offering, to create conversations with changemakers about how ideas take shape, travel and thrive. That's the tagline that we use. And so every month or so, we invite a speaker who has unique knowledge to come talk about their work. And we often talk about this in our growing learning community as the act of creating space for different kinds of conversations and different kinds of knowledge to come together.
00;02;23;16 - 00;03;09;38
Erica Machulak
But the focus today is really on spaces that aren't ours to create. And I know of no one who has thought more deeply and more specifically about how we bring different kinds of knowledge together than Camille Callison. And so really extremely grateful to have her here. Camille has done incredible work to think through how librarians and archivists and how the rest of us, modeling on on the work that she has done, can talk about Indigenous ways of knowing and build collaboration respectfully. And I find that the way that she has gone about that work is incredibly inspiring.
00;03;11;16 - 00;03;30;28
Camille Callison
Well, first of all, I just want to say thank you so much. I, you'll hear me say this throughout the conversation, but madhu, which is thank you in Tahltan, so madhucho, huge thank you to Hikma and to Erica and Nicole, for having me here and for hosting this conversation.
00;03;31;01 - 00;04;11;05
Camille Callison
I'm really honored to be living and working on Stl'atl'imc, which is Sacred Stolen Land, and we were fortunate enough to see some teachings about that, and I'm honored to receive them. And I think that part of being a good guest is trying to live up to those teachings every day and, in the way that we walk. So I think that that's one of the first and foremost things, is that many Indigenous people, including Tahltan people, 85% of our of our nations members live off of our traditional territories.
00;04;11;05 - 00;04;39;01
Camille Callison
And so where we live and where we walk and do our work is always of importance to us to do that in a good way. I think today we were, we're meeting today at a quite unusual time, especially for us in the Lower mainland. And I'm actually surprised and pleased at the number of people that have joined us on a monday morning.
00;04;39;01 - 00;05;10;06
Camille Callison
I wasn't sure if anyone would actually join and I saw a few people. So it's nice to see quite a few familiar faces and new faces here today. And I just want to welcome you to come today to talk about traditional knowledge and how we can work with it in a respectful and meaningful way with the traditional owners of that knowledge in a way that reflects their worldview.
00;05;10;08 - 00;05;44;18
Camille Callison
And without giving into some of pan-atheist or globalist type world view when it comes to Indigenous knowledge. So I think that that's one of the things that is so difficult not to do. So part of that is because of the way that colonial and nations have organized themselves on many different nations lands and in in the communities and the province that I'm from, which is British Columbia.
00;05;44;20 - 00;06;34;16
Camille Callison
There's 204 distinct First Nations, and there's almost 600, and that's just First nations that's not included in Meitei communities or anywhere, hamlets. And I think that that's really important to remember that those numbers are actually much larger than that of what those communities are, depending on how they organize themselves traditionally and with within today's society. And that's also to remember that there is many communities who are still fighting for for acknowledgment because they were, whether they were off very picking, or they were off hunting or in their summer lands, they were not included.
00;06;34;16 - 00;06;39;91
Camille Callison
So we know that there's those as well, too, even just within the Canadian context.
00;06;41;33 - 00;07;15;41
Erica Machulak
So I guess, Camille, you've touched on this a bit, but I have a very baseline question for you, which is one that I have been grappling with since I got here and still don't have an answer to, and that is, what is your definition of indigenous ways of knowing? We hear this term a lot, but I think many of us who are trying to engage in this conversation don't know where to start. And and the follow up question to that is how do you recommend that folks go about building respectful collaborations? So those are my two questions for you.
00;07;16;00 - 00;07;57;24
Camille Callison
I would say Indigenous ways of knowing is like everything, it's everything in the world. It's our relationship with the Creator, or in my language [.....] I hope I said that right. And then it would be our connection to our land, to our water, to our mountains, to all of the creatures that live within that, with each other. That would be our ways of knowing - how do we relate with each other, who to marry, who are allowed to marry. So for us, with a Tahltan mom, that we were only allowed to marry the opposite clan.
00;07;57;24 - 00;09;09;26
Camille Callison
And there was a lot of reasons for that. And we see that with people married too close. Sometimes their children pay the price for that. And so we, there's, it's basically Indigenous knowledge and our ways of knowing relate to everything, how we are, our connection, our relationship with everything around us, no matter what it is. And I think that that's really important to remember that some people, I think one of the biggest mistakes, or I wouldn't say mistakes, but probably challenges, that happens is that for many they try to separate out ways of knowing into libraries, archives, museums, mainstream type of things. And for us there is no separation. Everything's interconnected, it's interrelated. And so it's that interconnectedness that really defines Indigenous ways of knowing. So it's not just how do we live in a good way, how do we conduct ourselves in a good way, how do we treat each other with respect and not saying that anybody is perfect at that, but that there's an attempt to at least do that.
00;09;09;26 - 00;09;41;11
Camille Callison
And if there isn't, if there is harm done, then we are supposed to acknowledge that and try to either create reconciliation and reconstitution, which is more than just saying I'm sorry, but that we try to restore that person back to their former, to where they would have been formerly, or even above that. So there's a lot of things that are much more nuanced in our communities as far as those relationships with each other go.
00;09;41;14 - 00;10;03;01
Camille Callison
But our relationships with everything is really about the ways of knowing. And so remembering that it's like a big web, a spider's web, if you will, that everything is interconnected. So if there's one thread that's broken and you'll see a spider do this, they go very quickly and fix that so that everything holds back together. So it is about that.
00;10;03;01 - 00;10;29;23
Camille Callison
It's about those ways of knowing are sometimes written. Sometimes they're contained in art or they're contained in my earrings by Fred Moyer, or the dress that I'm wearing by my other cousin [...], and that's just from my community. And I made sure to wear my Tahltan clothing and that kind of thing, which isn't regalia.
00;10;29;23 - 00;10;58;12
Camille Callison
It's actually everyday wear. And I think that that's the thing. So we do have very sacred things that we wear as regalia, which would be a button blanket. We don't wear that every day. But we do wear who we are on a regular basis every day. And I think that's, for me, that's really important because then people know, okay, she comes from Clan of the Tahltan Nation and we work every day to uphold our clan and to make them proud of us.
00;10;58;13 - 00;11;27;08
Camille Callison
And that's not always the case. We're all human. We're not going to, we're going to make mistakes. But when we do, we need to own them as well, too. And I think that that's really important as well. And that's kind of what the Truth and Reconciliation Commission has attempted to do in a way, is to be able to say, look we're telling the truth now about what happened in residential schools, that children as young as three, even younger than three in some cases.
00;11;27;08 - 00;12;01;18
Camille Callison
But for me, three is very important because that was my uncle's age when he was taken to one, were taken and reeducated and and the intent was to kill the Indian in the child and to take away their language and those kinship connections. And I think that that's so important that we acknowledge that that truth happened. But then also to to work on the reconciliation. As we can tell from the discovery of unmarked graves, that communities and people who have gone to residential school have always said that we're there.
00;12;01;20 - 00;12;32;06
Camille Callison
And that shock happening, that that truth is not always either been told or it hasn't been believed when it was told. And part of it is that that wasn't believed. And so I think it's been told a lot by residential school survivors, very brave residential school survivors who I, I lift my hands up to every day because that had to be the most painful thing for them to recount their time in residential schools.
00;12;32;08 - 00;12;56;12
Camille Callison
And I think we are starting to get better at telling the truth. But now how are we doing reconciliation? And that is really about why the relationships are so important. And so getting to your second part of that question about the relationships and how do we go about establishing that. Well, I always talk to people and I say, you know, when you met a new friend, how did that happen?
00;12;56;14 - 00;13;22;14
Camille Callison
When you met your significant other? How did that happen? And it is about taking that initial step to be able to meet each other and then building a respectful relationship on it. I think about some of that as the relationship with, is is somewhat like a marriage, because a marriage isn't like, we have our relatives. You can't choose your family.
00;13;22;14 - 00;13;46;25
Camille Callison
You just need to be in relationship with them. And sometimes people aren't. But you do choose who you decide to have as a significant other. So it is kind of like building that. How do you get to know them? You understand them, you spend time with them. That's the biggest thing. Spend time with them to know who they are, to talk to them, to find out where what they want, what's their worldview.
00;13;46;25 - 00;14;11;08
Camille Callison
If you don't spend time with them and talk to them and share with them, and let them share with you, how are you going to build that relationship? So in answer to that, I would say that the smallest part of that answer that I could condense it down to is spending time. I think that that's so important to do that and to ask other people what they want.
00;14;11;10 - 00;14;34;02
Camille Callison
So very often we get people who come into communities and think they know what we want, and oh we want to do this one and we want to do that. And then talk in our language, which is I've been guilty of that as well, too. So as a librarian, I sometimes talk in acronyms and big words about about the work that we do.
00;14;34;02 - 00;14;59;20
Camille Callison
And it's really important to speak in a language that a person can understand. And I think that that's part of us as cultural heritage professionals. We have to remember that other people are like in kindergarten as far as our technology goes. So you wouldn't go up to a person who is four or five years old and start talking to them in huge, in big words, and language that they can understand.
00;14;59;20 - 00;15;24;15
Camille Callison
And these huge concepts that are much above them. Please don't do that to our community too. But don't pretend that they don't know it, because I would say that there is very few people in our communities that don't grow up cutting their teeth off knowing what rights and title are. And because, I always say that to people like when I was young, they'd be like, Oh, you have a lot of knowledge about rights and title.
00;15;24;15 - 00;15;50;11
Camille Callison
And I'm like, Well, it's basically what we cut our teeth on in our community. We hear it all our life because that's something that we're grown to protect and to be able to do. That doesn't matter if we've grown up in our community or not. We know about it and I think that that's important too. So I think there's a balance and that's created within that relationship and knowing what people know, helping them with what they don't know, you learning from them.
00;15;50;14 - 00;16;10;27
Camille Callison
There's always a reciprocal exchange. And I can guarantee if you spend time with community, you'll learn more than you're giving. So I think that that's a really valuable thing. And so the first thing that you would do is to spend time with people and to be open to their ways of knowing.
00;16;11;00 - 00;16;16;55
Erica Machulak
Thank you, Camille. That's really helpful. Nicole, can I invite you to read a question from the chat?
00;16;17;60 - 00;16;31;01
Nicole Markland
Sure. Kasha asked a really good question: I'm curious about your take on what the distinction is between Indigenization and decolonization. That's a hard question.
00;16;31;48 - 00;17;15;14
Camille Callison
Well, I think that that is a good question. And thank you for that deep thinking. And now I definitely have to answer because that's my clan member. I just have to laugh about that because it's our our Tahltan women are definitely very committed to preserving our ways of knowing and our language and who we are. And I appreciate being challenged on that question. So I think that Indigenization and decolonization are somewhat similar in some ways, but I also think that it's also can be problematic.
00;17;15;17 - 00;17;44;25
Camille Callison
And so Indigenization is much different, obviously, than decolonization, but there has to be decolonizing before we can actually Indigenize. So that's where the similarity would be, is in the fact that we we still need to do that work and that some of those processes are going to be the same except for decolonization. And then when you Indigenize, it's going to be actually looking at the same things, but in another way.
00;17;44;28 - 00;18;18;28
Camille Callison
So when we're talking about decolonization, decolonizing structures and processes and how we do our work, we're looking at ways that we can change that have been kind of accepted ways of doing business. And I mean, I basically I work in academia, so most of the things that I think about are in academia. But even if we're looking at public spaces like public libraries or archives that are open to the public, we need to decolonize some of those.
00;18;18;28 - 00;18;45;22
Camille Callison
And I think part of the decolonizing process is that we are are working hard to be able to. So if, I would use one example, and that is we need to train people from a multiplicity of diverse backgrounds and viewpoints and to work in many different languages. We need to train those people. And part of that is that decolonizing process.
00;18;45;24 - 00;19;10;18
Camille Callison
And, and then that leads back to who are we accepting into our programs, into our master's programs, into our educational programs to be able to do that? And how are we making that accessible to them? So, for example, if people come from a marginalized or underprivileged background, how are we actually attempting to make that education available for them if they want to take it?
00;19;10;21 - 00;19;33;19
Camille Callison
So we're actually starting, we need to start at the beginning. How who do we recruit? Who do we recruit from. High schools to say, Hey, you can do this? You know, there was people that I know that came in and I went to university later in life, that that didn't know that they could ever achieve what they've achieved, because no one told them that when they were in high school.
00;19;33;19 - 00;19;52;24
Camille Callison
So I think it starts at the beginning of many of the ways that we do things. So whether it's getting people into the programs. If we don't have them in the programs and they haven't done their education, then how can we hire them into places that are in libraries, archives, museums? So how do we do that? How do we even get them interested in that?
00;19;52;26 - 00;20;24;19
Camille Callison
I always say in this profession, in the cultural memory profession is that it's not even known. I didn't even know that I could become a librarian until Dr. Jean Joseph from the Wet'suwet'en Nation was the founding library at [...] library and I ended up being voluntold to do a fundraiser for the library for their collections. And so it really was at that point that I met her when my elder sister sent me, was too busy to do it.
00;20;24;19 - 00;20;46;13
Camille Callison
And I ended up helping with this fundraiser. I met her and she appreciated my skills, hired me as a student worker, and I still was really firm about going into anthropology, but it changed my life. And years later I did go into being, to this profession. But that's a difference of one person to make in someone's life.
00;20;46;13 - 00;21;12;22
Camille Callison
And I look at that and I think, well, that is the decolonizing process that we're actually encouraging people to come into it. And it's those people that come into our profession in academia that are going to Indigenize it. And so with that, I carried a responsibility for the people who believed in me and supported me into this field to be able to start to Indigenize that profession.
00;21;12;25 - 00;21;47;25
Camille Callison
And part of it with the indigenizing is to create ways of embedding it into things like the curriculum. How often do you go into a library or an archive and see someone who looks like you there? And I think that's important. How are we serving the community that we actually are part of? Whether it's Indigenous communities or Asian communities or South Asian communities or Black communities, Hispanic communities, wherever we are, we need to serve that community and we need to pull up the people.
00;21;48;02 - 00;22;42;64
Camille Callison
And to me, that's the big part about colonization. In cultural memory professions, there is a big status quo, and it's often well-meaning people who think they know what other people want. And I'm not saying that they don't want that. They may want that. It's just that you need to ask them if that's what they want. So that's part of that deolonizing process. So there is a big difference between decolonizing and Indigenization because what the decolonizing needs to happen on all fronts for all peoples, but Indigenizing is really specific to Indigenous ways of knowing. And so I think that there's really quite a big difference. But I think one is a process that needs to happen before the other happens within, specifically within the academy. So I hope I answered that sufficiently.
00;22;44;90 - 00;22;46;15
Erica Machulak
Thank you. I really great question. Appreciate it.
00;22;46;87 - 00;23;07;24
Nicole Markland
I think we have just one more question in the chat. If we still have time, Daphne asks, Is there something Camille would recommend as something intentional that members of our professional associations could do or stop doing to encourage respectful relationships with indigenous communities?
00;23;08;18 - 00;23;34;12
Camille Callison
Well, you know, one of the things that I keep on thinking about is that I wonder if one of the things that I would say that is so important for people is to listen to, to listen to us when we're speaking. And I think, you know, there's been a lot of Indigenous librarians and archivists over the years and there will continue to be that have laid out good paths forward.
00;23;34;14 - 00;24;04;25
Camille Callison
And one of the things that I think is so disheartening for many people is that sometimes people aren't listening. So we keep on saying the same things over and over again. And I'll give an example of this, is that we do have a First Nations group program which recommends different books and that kind of thing. And then I noticed in the Dalhousie lecture that I had asked Dr. Jean Joseph to come back and do that somebody asked for book list.
00;24;04;28 - 00;24;32;11
Camille Callison
And I thought to myself, So you're asking one of our esteemed elders who is who is above any of the rest of us in the work that she's done, being the title librarian for [....] case and ensuring that oral histories are embedded into into the court as as legal evidence, and you're asking her to give you a book list when you have Google.
00;24;32;13 - 00;24;54;22
Camille Callison
And to me, that was just unbelievably offensive. I was really upset. Not at the person, but at the lack of understanding that many of these things have already been done. So I would say you're exhausting Indigenous librarians and archivist by asking the same questions over and over again when you already have the resources. And we've provided them.
00;24;54;25 - 00;25;28;23
Camille Callison
One of the biggest things with the Truth and Reconciliation Committee report, was that I was always asked the same questions over and over again. And part of that report was to answer those questions. I to give people a direction forward. There will be upcoming the Truth and Reconciliation Task Force, but the report and recommendations are going to come out shortly from that, and I think that that's really important for the archive community from the Senate Committee on Archives.
00;25;28;23 - 00;25;53;15
Camille Callison
But I think honestly it's to listen to Indigenous people when they've told you and just not keep on asking them over and over again and create relationships with them that are ongoing. So what I mean by that and I'm not saying this to offend anyone, I'm trying to gently nudge people to kind of do this work themselves as that, I had a relationship with a significant other.
00;25;53;17 - 00;26;10;24
Camille Callison
And I only talked to them when I needed something from them. That's not really much of a relationship, and probably that wouldn't last for very long, I'm guessing, you know, Hey, honey, give me some money every month or so would not probably work out very well. But I don't have time for you. I don't have time to have dinner with you.
00;26;10;24 - 00;26;25;08
Camille Callison
And I, you know, I'm sorry, but I'm busy. I don't have time to do this. I'm so busy right now. I don't have time for and the rest of the month. But when it came to pay day, I really wanted to get some money from you. That's not going to happen. So it has to be an ongoing, meaningful relationship.
00;26;25;08 - 00;26;43;18
Camille Callison
Not an extractive relationship, a reciprocal relationship. And, you know, every community that I go to wants something different. I don't know what they are. I could never tell you what they are as an Indigenous person, because I don't have a relationship with that local community. Now, I know that many of you are already doing that work or else you wouldn't be on here.
00;26;43;21 - 00;27;06;29
Camille Callison
So this message is really I'm preaching to the choir right now, and I know that. But I think that it's really important to keep on saying, is saying be this because I feel like it's not still not being done where there's this ongoing relationship with each other, where we actually talk to each other. And I think that that's so important.
00;27;07;01 - 00;27;29;27
Camille Callison
And, you know, sometimes you're gonna go to communities and they won't know what they want because they don't really know what you do. And so when they understand, and I think I am I'm an example of this, I, I didn't understand what people didn't know when I went to and I've worked with some communities. And so instead I was talking at this level and I should have been talking at this level, and I've been guilty of that.
00;27;29;27 - 00;27;54;15
Camille Callison
And I definitely have had many regrets for doing that because it was so easy to me, but it wasn't that easy to them. And so remembering that, remembering that in the relationship that we're coming from a privileged place of knowledge within this profession that they don't always have. So I think that that would be kind of part of where we're coming from is just how do we talk to Indigenous communities.
00;27;54;16 - 00;28;21;06
Camille Callison
And for each community it's going to be different. And then not assuming that they're not doing that work in every community I've ever gone to, every community, they're doing something to preserve their traditional knowledge, whether it's they're on cassette tapes, and they need to be digitized to more newer technology. They need to be migrated to that. If they're recording the stories of the elders, if they're working with language.
00;28;21;06 - 00;28;42;21
Camille Callison
I mean, I've seen little language storybooks that are photocopied on the band office. We used to photocopy our dictionary at the band office to give to people. It's kind of one of those things that people are doing, but they're doing with the best that they can with the resources that they have. So it might not look like what we do in libraries, but they're still doing something.
00;28;42;21 - 00;29;02;25
Camille Callison
So find out what that is and then help them with that. Give them that technology that they need. Hey, you know what? We can afford to send these out to a printing press for you or whatever, but every community is doing something. We are very aware that if we do not preserve our knowledge that it won't, that we won't have it.
00;29;02;28 - 00;29;21;28
Camille Callison
And so we are doing that. But it's about helping them where they're at. And I don't know what each community has because I would have to go and do an environmental scan of what they have, and I wouldn't even say that to them. I would just say, I need to see what you have you're doing, because we use different language in academia.
00;29;22;00 - 00;29;44;14
Camille Callison
So I think that that's important to do as well, to just to talk to people and don't assume that they're not doing something, but assume that what they're doing, you might be able to build, you might be able to lift them, lift their voices, don't lift yours. I see at conferences all the time, people getting up and talking about their work, and I'm like, Where is the Indigenous person standing there beside you?
00;29;44;14 - 00;30;03;09
Camille Callison
Because I know that they have just as much, if not more to do with that work than you did. Why aren't you flying them to that, well now we're in COVID, but before that why aren't you flying them to that conference. They need to be part of that. And it's always about money. But I can tell you, people can find money for what they want to find money for.
00;30;03;11 - 00;30;42;14
Camille Callison
So I encourage you to treat them as equal partners or respected partners and to always elevate their voice so that they have the final say so, in whatever that project that you're working on with them is, if they say, No, we can't do that, please stop doing it. I think that that's so important that we have to allow them to to have that final word about their own knowledge and their own language in their own community, because if you're in a relationship and you're doing something to hurt somebody else and they ask you to stop and you don't stop, you're not going to be in that relationship for very much longer either.
00;30;42;14 - 00;31;09;00
Camille Callison
So I think taking relationships that you have with with people that you admire and respect and that their love that's got to be what it's all about. You know, I think there's a whole there's a whole different kind of set of values if you look at it in that way, in a respectful relationship. And many communities have relationships defined already.
00;31;09;00 - 00;31;32;00
Camille Callison
So looking at how they define those relationships and those clan relationships and who can say what and that kind of thing is really important as well too. So I think that those things are, it can get complicated, but it's about communication and it's about respect for each other and listening to each other that can make a big difference moving forward.
00;31;32;01 - 00;31;44;90
Camille Callison
So I know that was a long answer to a short question, but I really appreciate the question and I thank you for it, because I think it's so important for us to create those respectful relationships.
00;31;45;83 - 00;31;47;90
Erica Machulak
Thank you. Camille.
00;31;48;01 - 00;32;05;68
Camille Callison
I'd like to say thank you if possible. So I just want to say madhucho to everyone for listening. And thank you for taking your time, time away from your work and for your attention today. I really appreciate all of you. Thank you so much. Madhu.
00;32;08;05 - 00;32;27;92
Erica Machulak
And once again, two years later, I want to extend my heartfelt thanks to Camille and everyone who joined the event. And I would be remiss if I did not also acknowledge Shirley Hardiman, who gave a fantastic land acknowledgment that we didn't record. So thank you very much for listening now, and for those of you who listened back then.
00;32;32;56 - 00;32;57;70
Erica Machulak
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Hikma Collective Podcast. I'm your host, Erica Machulak, founder of Hikma. The production this episode was led by Sophia van Hees, in collaboration with Simangele Mabena, Eufemia Baldassarre, Ai Mizuta, Nicole Markland and Dashara Green. Matthew Tomkinson composed the original music you hear now in his capacity as the 2022 Hikma artist in residence.
00;32;58;28 - 00;33;28;26
Erica Machulak
This podcast has been made possible with generous support from Innovate BC, Tech Nation, the Information and Communications Technology Council, the Canada Digital Adoption Program and the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada. You can find show notes, links and transcripts at www.hikma.studio/podcast. Hikma is situated on the traditional, ancestral and unceded territory of the ən̓q̓əmin̓əm̓ speaking Musqueam people.
00;33;28;29 - 00;33;52;27
Unknown
We are grateful to be here and to share this space with you. Our speakers, team members and listeners are based all over the world and wherever you're listening, we encourage you to learn more about whose lands you're on.
