00;00;00;00 - 00;01;07;26
Erica Machulak
Madeleine Shaw is one of these change makers who's able to move and shake things regardless of sector. She is a serial entrepreneur who I first met when she was giving a keynote at the University of British Columbia Entrepreneurship Program, and she was talking about her work as co-founder of Aisle, where they make sustainable period products. And somebody in the audience asked her this question. They said, How do you justify making period products that are so expensive when you have this social mission? And she said, period products should be free, not cheap. And she went on to have these great insights about our collective responsibility to look after the world. So today in The Hikma collective podcast, I had the honor of chatting with Madeleine about her many initiatives and her approach to her work. I'm Erica Machulak, founder of Hikma, and I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Thanks for joining.
00;01;07;28 - 00;01;11;00
Erica Machulak
Thank you for being here with us, Madeleine. Tell us about yourself.
00;01;12;28 - 00;01;37;25
Madeleine Shaw
Sure. Thank you, Erica. So my name is Madeleine Shaw, I use she/her pronouns, and I am situated on the Unceded traditional territory of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-waututh peoples in what's colonially known as Vancouver, Canada. And I'm a social entrepreneur. I often define myself as an eco feminist entrepreneur to be a little more specific in my flavor of social.
00;01;37;27 - 00;02;15;16
Madeleine Shaw
And I have founded now a few different impact driven for-profit and non-profit entities that all have social change at their heart. So basically, I see my practice as someone who builds kind of the vehicles or kind of scaffolding around a social change agenda to bring it into the world. And I am also a writer and the author of a book called The Greater Good Social Entrepreneurship for Everyday People Who Want to Change the World, and that's me.
00;02;15;18 - 00;02;39;28
Erica Machulak
Thank you. It's wonderful to have you. We really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us today. So tell me, Madeline, what are you building now? What are you working on these days?
00;02;27;00 - 00;03;33;10
Madeleine Shaw
Yeah, thanks for that question, Erica. And so, well, helping out at Aisle, which is something that I still do. So Aisle, formally known as Luna Pads is a company that I'm best known as a co-founder, and I am currently and have been for a few years, the director of Partnership and Impact. And so it's about nurturing relationships and what we're trying to do right now is, is create conditions for there to be large scale institutional change. And so, for example, governments, employers, post-secondary institutions, purchasing and otherwise providing reusable menstrual care products for their constituents and that is as part of that, I'm working on relationships with government and different people, like really trying to do this at scale because the.. anyways, it's a it's a whole, the kind of mainstream marketplace now for reusable menstrual care products has become kind of co-opted by mainstream capitalist interests.
00;03;33;11 - 00;04;22;09
Madeleine Shaw
And so I'm trying to go around that and also enact change at a far broader scale at this institutional kind of scale. So anyway, so that's how I spend most of my time, and that's exciting. And I'm also working on developing a shared co-working space that is family friendly called Nest Works. And so that's another project that I've been involved with, I founded a few years ago now - born out of the experience of Susanne, my business partner at Aisle, and I having brought our children to work with us when they were young because there was no access to childcare, which is a persistent problem as we know, and just really questioning this strict dichotomy of work and life that then we are sort of struggling to balance all the time.
00;04;22;09 - 00;04;42;21
Madeleine Shaw
It's like, how about how would we approach it differently and use the language of integration rather than balance? It's like we only need to balance people things that are separate or far apart, right? So if they're integrated, then there's no need because it's inherently, it's the same thing, right? So anyways, that's a project that I work on as well.
00;04;42;21 - 00;05;08;28
Madeleine Shaw
And then I also, bits and pieces like I do speaking gigs related to my book, The Greater Good. And I also, oh, I don't know, I'm, I'm a mom and I am raising co-parenting a 17 year old daughter who's amazing and just really being mindful of the fact that, you know, she's about to graduate from high school and may not even be living with us a year from now, like, I don't know.
00;05;08;28 - 00;05;48;00
Madeleine Shaw
And so I'm really kind of reprioritizing my role as a mother to spend time with her because she's who knows, right. And those are those are my things
00;05;24;28 - 00;05;31;30
Erica Machulak
Those are a lot of things, Madeline. And when did you first become a social entrepreneur? When did that start?
00;05;32;70 - 00;06;17;02
Madeleine Shaw
Well, interestingly, it started before I even put those two words together, you know, as a little phrase, because I don't think the term social entrepreneurship was coined until who was it? Who did it? Anyways, it's in the book. I was a social entrepreneur right out of the gate. Because, you know, if you take those two words separately, social and entrepreneur, social comes first, right? And that to me is a very important thing, not just grammatically, but in terms of significance. It's like you are pursuing the practice, the practice of entrepreneurship is the how and the social is the why, right?
00;06;17;02 - 00;07;25;00
Madeleine Shaw
So you're not showing up going, Oh, I'm an entrepreneur who wants to do have social impact. You're showing up saying, I'm a social change agent and I'm deploying the tools of entrepreneurship to achieve social change ends. And in my case, that was super, super true because I became a feminist activist as a university student. And that's really, that was my first sort of calling to leadership and just feeling like I really became who I was in, as a young university student feminist, and and then becoming a social entrepreneur later, naturally the feminism was kind of the underpinning of it. The eco part of feminism came a little bit later, and but then, you know, so I was basically an activist who decided to use the tools business to achieve my, my goals.
00;07;10;75 - 00;07;14;80
Erica Machulak
Mm hmm. And what was your first social enterprise?
00;07;15;00 - 00;07;52;06
Madeleine Shaw
Well, it was called Everywhere Designs, and it was a kind of local slow fashion business. And I had a retail boutique for about three years downtown in Vancouver, and I had a manufacturing business. And as part of that, I was making lunar pads and the lunar undies. And so those products were part of a suite of other things that I was making. I was making cloth shopping bags. Imagine that in the early 1990s, which incidentally, I tried to sell to Whole Foods at the time was called Capers, and they turned me down.
00;07;52;08 - 00;08;15;14
Madeleine Shaw
They didn't think that people would be interested when they could have plastic bags, even in natural products - like, really? Anyway, beside the point. So Everywhere Designs was my first company and then I didn't decided I didn't want to be in the retail business and I was trying to do too many things all at once. And so I wanted to focus on lunar pads and the period underwear in 1999.
00;08;15;14 - 00;08;42;22
Madeleine Shaw
So I closed my store and fortunately at that time I met my business partner, Suzanne Siemens, at a community leadership program in Vancouver, and we got together and incorporated a new company dedicated to promoting the reusable menstrual products.
00;08;33;70 - 00;08;43;93
Erica Machulak
I have so many questions I want to ask you, but one that I definitely want to get to is: tell us about your book, The Greater Good. What is it about?
00;08;42;22 - 00;09;15;19
Madeleine Shaw
Yeah, thank you for that. So the full title of the book is The Greater Good Social Entrepreneurship for Everyday People Who Want to Change the World. So just to break that down a little bit, the greater good is basically seeking to achieve collective benefit over individual success. And so it's not a you know, this isn't good to great, you know, is what I'm saying in terms of business books, it's it is a business book and it's about start in the sense that you're starting ventures, but they don't have to be for-profit.
00;09;15;19 - 00;09;46;25
Madeleine Shaw
They could be non-profit. They could even be a project. They don't need to have a legal structure, in my opinion. And nothing is sort of too quote unquote small. I think a lot of people believe that their their ventures or their ideas need to be, quote unquote, scalable in this world. And I completely dispute that, especially when we look at radiant impact, which is more what I'm about, where you're looking at a far more multifaceted definition of impact and success.
00;09;46;28 - 00;10;12;18
Madeleine Shaw
So the greater good is something, is collective benefit. Social entrepreneurship I often define that from the word the French word entrepreneurship meaning to undertake. So all you're doing is simply taking action. Social being shorthand for social environmental impact. Everyday people is another interesting part of the title. You know, who are everyday people? Like that's kind of a you know, obviously it's a book title, so it needs to be relatively short.
00;10;12;18 - 00;10;45;04
Madeleine Shaw
But everyday people is essentially code for anyone who is not white cis het Male and trying to do something with technology because it feels like that is the dominant paradigm for in the media, for who entrepreneurs are, is that they're trying to achieve these like disruptive, scalable, tech based ventures and they're raising all the money and then they're scaling and they're, you know, 24/7 and they're doing all this frenzied hustle, you know, whatever.
00;10;45;06 - 00;11;16;16
Madeleine Shaw
And then they're making a big exit and they made all this money and they, you know, they've got all the toys and they won. And in my world, as a social entrepreneur, like the people I've seen are mostly women and non-binary individuals. They are people of color, they are indigenous people. They are people of, you know, elders, that are people of diverse abilities there who are pursuing ventures based on the kind of social change that they want to see in the world.
00;11;16;16 - 00;11;46;13
Madeleine Shaw
And that is rooted in their own experience typically. And so whether someone has experienced a traumatic event or they've seen because they felt marginalized, have been marginalized in a certain setting, or they were seeking to solve a problem that was not being identified as being important enough in a mainstream kind of way and just and are taking action or are undertaking, to that entrepreneur word, something.
00;11;46;13 - 00;12;57;28
Madeleine Shaw
And so I really wanted to write my book, to speak to those people, to encourage them to find themselves and to broaden this paradigm of entrepreneur beyond the stereotype I just articulated a second ago and encourage them to find themselves in that paradigm, to reinvent the paradigm, to take it on as its own. So in order to write the book, not only I include of my own story and ventures and examples and so on, but I also canvased about 100 other social entrepreneurs and drew on their stories because I wanted to be able to, like I'm just one person and I belong to a very specific, you know, white settler woman over 50, you know, Anglophone, Western, all of Global North, blah, blah, blah, able bodied, etc.. So I wanted to get stories for folks who didn't look like me, thing number one, but also were pursuing ventures very different from my own, to help other people find themselves in those stories. And even if they didn't find themselves in mine in particular. So the book is a lot of stories really.
00;12;57;28 - 00;13;35;00
Madeleine Shaw
And and yes, there's tips and, you know, here's your business model canvas, and here is why money matters and those types of things are there, too. But I really I wanted to speak to the inner journey of social entrepreneurship and really to come from a place of encouragement as opposed to advice and give people a sense of being part of a movement and to encourage them to build relationship and seek connection with others in their community, to co-create solutions to make the world a better place. That's the change the world person
00;13;35;60 - 00;13;54;10
Erica Machulak
Yeah. Well, and it, it completely comes through in the way that you talk about community and relationships to I, I mean as you know, and I'll give a quick shout out to entrepreneurship at UBC when they through that conference at which you were the keynote speaker, which was the first time that I heard you speak and you talked about the greater good.
00;13;54;13 - 00;14;47;26
Erica Machulak
And then they mentioned at the end of your talk that they were doing a pop-up book signing. And Sophia and I had been watching virtually, and I sprinted to the building to be able to to meet you and get your book. And even your your inscription in the book just said, Let's do this. And I was like, That's so that's so nice, I'm being invited into this, into this community and into this thing that this movement that you're participating in and cultivating. It's really, that was very exciting to me. Your business has been very successful. Your businesses, your work has been extremely successful in a world where not everyone shares your values. How do you build collaborative, productive collaborative relationships with people or organizations that don't share the same values as you?
00;14;47;29 - 00;15;16;09
Madeleine Shaw
It's super interesting. Yeah, because I'm see, I'm really challenged with that right now. There are a couple of universities in particular that I'd very like, local universities, that I would like to cultivate a relationship with. And it's interesting because they talk a huge game about sustainability and gender equity and academic equity and all these things. And but when they're presented with a solution to address that with a local partner, they are completely inept at even getting anyone to return emails. Like it's, it's kind of amazing. And so I see it as or I often frame it as someone just isn't there yet. And so then your role sort of becomes as a teacher and that you're, you know, you can see something they can't see and so you need to show it to them.
00;15;39;08 - 00;16;01;17
Madeleine Shaw
And yeah, so it's it's just different. It's very different from like the energy of pitching. I'm like, I'm going to pitch you this idea. It's like I'm going to I'm going to share an idea with you about how to make the world a better place together and understand like, and not everybody is where you are or sees what you see.
00;16;01;19 - 00;16;20;13
Madeleine Shaw
Like if I say, you know, I'm really interested in menstrual equity, and some people would be like, what? Like what is that? And so I need to start from that place of like beginner's mind. And even with products, it's like somebody is like, what? I have to wash them. Like, I would never say, Oh, duh of course you have to wash them.
00;16;20;13 - 00;16;49;21
Madeleine Shaw
It's like, that's where they are. That's what they know. We are all unlearning something and learning something else. And I'm one of those people too, right? I'm just it's about different things. And so I think bringing empathy and compassion and very much right brained thinking into it, where you're appealing to someone emotionally as opposed to the left brain, like this is what the numbers say, and bombarding people with statistics and telling them how bad a certain thing is or whatever.
00;16;49;21 - 00;17;22;13
Madeleine Shaw
And I never, I don't communicate with people that way. I usually just share story with, try and personalize it. It's like, what do you think it's like for a grade nine student who's got a math test and starts a period in the hallway? Like, how? What about that? Have you been that person? Might that person be your daughter? Might that, like, you know try and engage people that way and and help them find empathy?
00;17;22;16 - 00;17;50;18
Madeleine Shaw
Because people, they can't resist emotion. Nobody can do that. And it's the thing that's memorable. It's the thing that will always, it's where people really make decisions for them.
00;17;34;13 - 00;14;47;26
Erica Machulak
Yeah, totally. Even in a world where the presumption is that everything is based on numbers and metrics, you're totally right.
00;17;44;00 - 00;17;48;40
Madeleine Shaw
Yeah. Just the facts, man. It's like, look where the facts have gotten us.
00;17;50;20 - 00;17;54;90
Erica Machulak
And how does that translate to communicating with investors and finding the right investors?
00;18;58;53 - 00;18;55;15
Madeleine Shaw
Oh, that's another thing. Yeah. I mean. That is a place where I think people are still very stuck. Like even just the notion of investment and and making a return on that investment and how that is measured financially and in other ways not. It is measured sometimes in impact as well as financial metrics, but I think sometimes there's just a lack of nuance. Like I was in a meeting with an investor not too too long ago, a couple of years ago, and he was so excited about Aisle, and he was saying, you know, you do so much good in the world and you're a B Corp and you do this and you're in the LCA. And then but gosh, your margins are pretty skinny.
00;18;55;17 - 00;19;23;15
Madeleine Shaw
And I just thought to myself, well, do you not see a relationship between those two things? Like how do you think like do you think it doesn't cost money to be a B Corp or to be a living wage employer or to conduct life cycle analysis or factory visits or audits or whatever you want to do to make sure or test your products to make sure they don't contain toxic chemicals or whatever, like we do all those things and they all cost money.
00;19;23;17 - 00;19;46;28
Madeleine Shaw
And that means that our margins skinny. And he's basically saying you got to work on your margin, but you do so much good in the world. And I'm like, how do you, you know. So anyways I just I was in stunned silence and I reflected back to him. I'm like, there's a relationship between those two things. And that's like this this dream that I think a lot of investors have, that they still want the money, but they want it to be clean money.
00;19;46;28 - 00;20;05;01
Madeleine Shaw
They want it to be, they want to feel good about it, but they still want the money. And I, I really I dispute that. And I think we need to adjust our expectations, if you will, around you know, it's like I want my 10x return, but I also want it to be fossil fuel free and, you know, all those things.
00;20;05;01 - 00;20;28;00
Madeleine Shaw
And it's like, I don't see that. I think that we need to be willing to make concessions or reframe just our idea of what a meaningful return is. And I've heard somebody say not long ago that they wanted to reframe the metric of ROI or return on investment as return on inspiration, which I thought was nice and which is sort of like radiance.
00;20;28;00 - 00;20;47;00
Madeleine Shaw
And but for some people that's just way too fuzzy, like they can't wrap their minds around it. And that takes me back to that role of teacher. You know, people keep saying they want to innovate and so many ideas and yet they take they have these sacred cows around, I need this x return and it has to work this way.
00;20;47;00 - 00;21;14;23
Madeleine Shaw
And the bottom line is X and the margins Y and whatever. And it's like if you really want to think about things differently, then try and take like allow for the broadening of that lens.
00;20;58;45 - 00;21;06;87
Erica Machulak
So what about Nest works? Will you tell us more about your process of growing that?
00;21;07;50 - 00;21;14;23
Madeleine Shaw
Well, Networks has been a slow burn because we were having I mean, it was always like a side of the side of my desk sort of thing.
00;21;14;23 - 00;21;44;01
Madeleine Shaw
But we have a very, very strong board of directors who are all interested in this idea of of family friendly, shared coworking space. So in other words, it's co-working space that has family friendly amenities like childminding and dedicated nursing rooms of just that type of thing. So if you're a working parent of a small child, you can literally bring your child to work with you is the vision and and building community around that that we call revilliaging.
00;21;44;03 - 00;22;19;21
Madeleine Shaw
And so I've been working on that idea. I sort of fell in love with that idea and said yes to it in around 2016. And we were having pop ups until COVID came and then COVID did COVID, and now we're looking to start our pop ups again in the Lower Mainland. And it's been challenging, but I'm hopeful. Like, I think, you know, childcare regulations are a little bit outdated, I think, and it's made it hard for us to be able to offer what we want to offer.
00;22;19;21 - 00;23;07;23
Madeleine Shaw
And again, it's a vision thing. Like if you can tell that you're the way the world has been designed is presumed like this nuclear family where the mom would be home with the kids and the dad would be downtown in an office building. And it's like neither of those things are true anymore. So how do we design to actually meet this very different gig economy thing where a lot of parents don't want to put their kids in full time daycare, they don't need that. They need flexibility. And so I think flexible is the new balance in a lot of ways and that we need to design with that in mind and allow people, and also the way people live, like a lot of people in Vancouver live in very small spaces, right?
00;23;07;24 - 00;23;33;19
Madeleine Shaw
They don't necessarily have like a physical space where they can do work from home easily and have family time and stuff like that. So anyways, we're hoping to resurrect our pop ups in 2023 and hopefully open a permanent location sometime once we can raise money and yeah, I'm excited about it, but I'm not like pushing it, you know what I mean?
00;23;33;19 - 00;23;52;12
Madeleine Shaw
Like, as with the rest of my sort of philosophy, it's like I've only got so many hours in a day I, I'm trusting that this idea will show up. Like even somebody wrote me from Kelowna the other day, and they're like, Hey, you know, we want to do this in Kelowna. And I just sent them the business plan.
00;23;52;14 - 00;25;14;09
Madeleine Shaw
Like, I'm like, Go for it. Go ahead, do it. Like, if it's not me, that kind of makes it easier. I just want somebody to, you know, to do this. And so that's another funny fallacy in our in our world of like, I need to share my ideas. I need to control this thing and it, you know, whatever, and somebody is going to steal it from me and like, just give it away. Like, just go, go do it because the world needs it. And so that's much more representative of how I look at things like, you know, why wouldn't why wouldn't I, knowing this actually individual person was a big part of it. And she was working in partnership with local First Nations and whatever. I'm just like just go. Just have it.
00;24;35;25 - 00;24;52;37
Erica Machulak
What advice would you give to a person who is motivated to drive some kind of social change and is thinking about starting a business? What's the very first step besides buying your book? Of course.
00;24;52;60 - 00;25;14;09
Madeleine Shaw
Yeah. The book is really written for that type of person. If you haven't already done some form of documentation around why you want to do what you want to do, I would start there and and that can look like a lot of different things.
00;25;14;09 - 00;25;44;16
Madeleine Shaw
I mean, some people would make a drawing or a collage. It can be a conversation with another person. It could be a voice memo or it could be a short video, it could be kind of anything. But just to kind of externalize, begin the process of externalizing your ideas. I think in terms of presentation decks myself is something I'll make on my computer sometimes just to sort of like get all the pieces because it's usually not just one succinct.
00;25;44;17 - 00;26;16;28
Madeleine Shaw
Like, here's the thing, it's exactly what I'm going to do. It's like there's usually a bunch of different feelings or experiences that have led to the genesis of this idea. And so trying to find what those things might be. What are the stories that have led up to this? Because crafting your story is as important as whatever financial plans and operational plans and whatever else that you're going to do to actually make this happen, because the story is going to guide everything.
00;26;16;28 - 00;27;24;17
Madeleine Shaw
And within that story, there is probably some kind of a feeling or an emotion, some form of transformation. Like the Hero's Journey is a great reference point of understanding. Like what is the challenge that, you know, you faced, you saw a problem, you did something, whatever, that, that very basic narrative is something that the more in touch you can be and the clearer that you can be around what that is and find a way of telling that story visually or orally or whatever in the written word. That is, that will serve as kind of your your touchpoint through your entire journey as an entrepreneur, because you will always be asked that and you will always, like, let's put it this way, if you were sitting, let's say you met someone at a meeting or a coffee shop or whatever, and they're like, Yeah, I'm working on this social impact venture. Nobody wants to know what your financial plan is. Nobody wants to know what your operational plan is. People want to know why. People want to know how.
00;27;24;17 - 00;27;45;23
Madeleine Shaw
What is the change that you seek to create and that. So that's why I say that, because all the other things that can come like you or someone else can do it, whatever. But that story needs to come from you. And that feeling and I break this down a lot in the book. There's a lot that I have to say about crafting this and finding the emotional touchpoints and so on.
00;27;45;23 - 00;28;08;02
Madeleine Shaw
And creating a space for someone to respond to it and find themselves in your story. Because that like, honestly, it's how you how you're going to get people to work with you. It's how you're going to find investors. It's how are you going to find customers? Like all of it goes back to that feeling and people wanting to be part of that story with you.
00;28;08;05 - 00;28;26;90
Erica Machulak
Mm hmm. On the flip side of that, if you are an organization, say a business that already exists, that is thinking about trying to turn itself toward social good, what would you recommend is the first step for the leader of an organization that wants to rethink how it's doing things?
00;28;28;80 - 00;28;08;02
Madeleine Shaw
Well, it depends on what they're doing. Like it like if it's, let's say, a mining company that's I don't know where you're building weapons or I don't know whatever, doing something that's really super extractive, obviously you need to, or unsustainable, you need to stop or change those practices.
00;28;47;26 - 00;29;28;18
Madeleine Shaw
And I don't know, like in some cases that would be very extreme. But I would say to the leader of a company who let's say, you know, they're they're going about their business and and what their business is achieving is is neither it's neutral like it's neither beneficial nor extractive. It's just going about its business. I would look to becoming certified as a B corp actually as the best way because it it, so B-Corps are for-profit entities that are have undertaken very rigorous assessment in terms of like all of their social and environmental impacts of all of their operations.
00;29;28;21 - 00;30;18;21
Madeleine Shaw
And there's sort of a test or B-Corp readiness assessment that you can take as to sort of dip your toe in. But I would say if the leader of a for-profit company is serious about wanting their their business to be as socially, environmentally impactful as possible, is that is the number one best way to do it because it's rigorous, and it also brings you into a network of about 5000 other businesses globally who are as concerned and as interested in and as willing to walk the talk as you are. Because it really shows that, it's the difference. Some people are talking and other people are walking and B-Corps or walking the talk.
00;30;14;92 - 00;30;16;58
Erica Machulak
And Aisle is a B-Corp right?
00;30;17;20 - 00;30;48;20
Madeleine Shaw
Been a B-Corp since 2012. Thank you very much. Yes.
00;30;21;13 - 00;30;27;58
Erica Machulak
And what was the most, is there anything about the process that you learned about Aisle through becoming a B-Corp?
00;30;27;95 - 00;30;48;20
Madeleine Shaw
I would say, if anything, for us, becoming a B-Corp just formalized what was already true. Like we had Aisle. We've always been ahead of our time in terms of doing these things and caring about sustainability and caring about our, you know, human social impact and so on.
00;30;48;20 - 00;31;24;29
Madeleine Shaw
And so it basically codified and quantified what we were already doing. So if anything, it showed me that we were already sort of ahead of the curve and that that we're not alone. Like there are other people who care just as much as we do and are willing to put the work into it. So it felt really good, not just to be able to become a B-Corp, but to be sort of brought into the fold, if you will, of other companies who are really leading in terms of creating new standards or ways to be sustainable and that type of thing.
00;31;24;29 - 00;31;33;04
Erica Machulak
Really interesting. Well, thank you so much for your time, Madeleine. It's been a total pleasure to chat with you. We appreciate it.
00;31;33;34 - 00;31;24;29
Madeleine Shaw
Me too, Erica. You are awesome and I just I wish you every success in your work and life and in what you're doing. I think it's amazing and I'm very honored to be part of that. Thank you.
00;31;46;24 - 00;32;18;05
Erica Machulak
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Hikma Collective Podcast. I'm your host, Erica Machulak, founder of Hikma. The production this episode was led by Sophia van Hees, in collaboration with Simangele Mabena, Eufemia Baldassarre, Ai Mizuta, Nicole Markland and Dashara Green. Matthew Tomkinson composed the original music you hear now in his capacity as the 2022 Hikma artist in residence.
00;32;18;08 - 00;32;47;08
Erica Machulak
This podcast has been made possible with generous support from Innovate BC, Tech Nation, the Information and Communications Technology Council, the Canada Digital Adoption Program and the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada. You can find show notes, links and transcripts at www.hikma.studio/podcast. Hikma is situated on the traditional, ancestral and unceded territory of the ən̓q̓əmin̓əm̓ speaking Musqueam people.
00;32;47;08 - 00;33;10;16
Erica Machulak
We are grateful to be here and to share this space with you. Our speakers, team members and listeners are based all over the world and wherever you're listening, we encourage you to learn more about whose land you're on.
