00;00;08;14 - 00;00;40;07
Erica Machulak
Welcome back to the Hikma Collective Podcast. I'm Erica Machulak and today we're speaking with Dr. Nadia Sasso. Dr. Nadia Marie Sasso is a high powered creative cultural producer and unconventional scholar based in Los Angeles. Her expertize is developing, engaging, creative content and driving strategy across various platforms and media. Nadia has ten years of relevant, professional experience with documented success in the areas of social innovation, strategic partnerships and new media.
00;00;41;24 - 00;01;20;08
Erica Machulak
Her portfolio proves that she is deeply invested and interested in media as a storytelling tool, to not only engage and inspire audiences, but also to connect people around the world with stories they will love. She advocates for changing the way relationships are built, fostered and established across various industries, both in the diaspora and on the African continent. Nadia was the equity consultant for our Summer 2021 Pilot Course Entrepreneurship for PhDs, which also means that she was one of the very first consultants that I had ever worked with in my professional life.
00;01;21;04 - 00;01;44;17
Erica Machulak
And actually I learned a lot from her, not only about reframe in the way that I thought about access and inclusion in the course, but also the way that I thought about myself and how I comported myself as a business owner. And I'm really glad that we had the opportunity to chat with her about the path that she took to becoming a business owner.
00;01;44;17 - 00;02;17;11
Erica Machulak
Because I think that her approach to entrepreneurship comes from such a place of strength and such a celebration of the value that we bring to the world and the importance of prioritizing your mental health and your personal life and your passion in the way that you approach your work. Nadia also talks about, as you'll hear, the ways that we can defy categorization by other people and self-determine who we want to be and what we want to bring to the world.
00;02;18;04 - 00;02;22;10
Erica Machulak
So we hope you enjoy this conversation with Nadia.
00;02;24;16 - 00;02;51;18
Erica Machulak
Welcome back, everyone. Thank you for joining us. My name is Erica Machulak with Hikma and I'm here with Nadia Sasso, who is the equity consultant for this program and also an entrepreneur in her own right who has a Ph.D. in Africana studies and an entrepreneur. Nadia creates content to engage millennials in the African diaspora. She has also leveraged her background in diversity, marketing, communications and new media across notable stages and thank you Nadia for being here.
00;02;52;11 - 00;02;53;17
Nadia Sasso
Thank you for having me.
00;02;53;24 - 00;03;17;00
Erica Machulak
Oh, it's absolutely my pleasure. Nadia, it's been wonderful to work with you throughout the development of this program. You've really been here from the early stages, and I have appreciated so many different facets of your experience. But today I really want to dig into your work and your experience and better understand how you came to be a business owners that you are today.
00;03;17;01 - 00;03;23;13
Erica Machulak
So could you tell us a little bit about your educational history first, what did you study as an undergrad?
00;03;24;25 - 00;03;52;16
Nadia Sasso
So my educational history started with Bucknell University, where I studied English and Sociology with the concentration in media and culture. And for me, when I first got to Bucknell, I really thought that I was going to be a international politics major and just really work for the U.N. and really just change the world in that way. But then after I started getting my grades, the first couple of semesters, I was like, "Oh, that's not working out too well".
00;03;53;18 - 00;04;21;22
Nadia Sasso
So so I had to pivot. I actually met a great mentor who told me to major in English, and I was looking at him a little crazy because I do come from the Washington, D.C. area and I spoke with a really, really deep D.C. twang. I mean, some people might call it Ebonics or African American vernacular English, but I say that meant nonetheless to say that I, you know, I really didn't feel like I had what it take to be an English major.
00;04;22;09 - 00;04;43;18
Nadia Sasso
But I ended up graduating with, you know, with great grades. I actually ended up loving it. And I think it was because they had just implemented a variety of courses under the English department that really spoke to who I was as a black woman or the culture that I come from with a lot of things focusing on, like media, African-American history and Africana.
00;04;44;15 - 00;05;09;20
Nadia Sasso
The African diaspora in general. And then with sociology, it was just a great combination and I just got to have fun with it. And so that made my experience academically worthwhile at Bucknell. And then I went on to I took a year off, a year or two off. I moved to L.A., I worked for Disney Consumer Products and Nielsen and Media Marketing Analytics.
00;05;10;00 - 00;05;33;18
Nadia Sasso
After that time, I actually moved back to the East Coast and went to grad school because my mom started getting sick. I needed to be closer to home, so I went to Lehigh University. Where did a Master's in American Studies with a focus again on the African Diaspora experience within the American context. And I also did a certification in documentary film.
00;05;33;26 - 00;05;56;14
Nadia Sasso
And within those two programs I was able to develop my thesis, which was a documentary on "Am I to African to be American, too American to be African?" and it featured Issa Rae. And that was a really, really fun time. And that's where my entrepreneurial part well, I always had the entrepreneurial spirit given my dynamic and growing up with my grandmother, my godmother.
00;05;56;21 - 00;06;12;09
Nadia Sasso
However, that's when it really intersected with academia because I ended up right after that went to Cornell University, I printed out DVDs, I sold DVD that went on to do a college tour with the film. And I really, you know, it was a business.
00;06;12;14 - 00;06;19;17
Erica Machulak
So. So when you say entrepreneurial spirit, what does that mean? What are the what are the skills or competencies you're thinking of there?
00;06;19;22 - 00;06;47;03
Nadia Sasso
So entrepreneurial spirit, it's literally taking, you know, really, really just, I guess, hustling. But also turning something into a business, right, that people don't really think you would need business skills for or you would, you know, going on this business venture, that's not necessarily a big massive company, in my opinion. So when I say I always have is entrepreneur spirit.
00;06;47;13 - 00;07;16;22
Nadia Sasso
You know, from elementary school I was sell candy. Then in middle school, I upgraded to selling earrings and jewelry and accessories for my locker, which I don't even know if that was I was supposed to be doing that. That's really here nor there, doing hair and being booked all weekend because, I just wanted to really get out of my parents hair and not really feel like they had to be so, you know, take some responsibility off of them.
00;07;16;27 - 00;07;44;04
Nadia Sasso
So I was always doing something and then again, hair in college and doing tutoring, whatever the case may be. But then I felt like in grad school it was always those things definitely made money and I was able to survive, but when I was able to do the thesis and the film and different things, that was on a whole nother level because that's when I started and 2014 registered my first business or the 2012 around.
00;07;44;04 - 00;07;50;19
Nadia Sasso
Then between 2012, 2014, graduating my first business. What does the EIA number look like? How do you file business taxes? All those different things?
00;07;51;04 - 00;08;03;09
Erica Machulak
So you start selling these DVDs, you start turning your actual scholarship from your Master's into a hustle. How does that lead you to your Ph.D.?
00;08;04;25 - 00;08;31;10
Nadia Sasso
So it led to my Ph.D. because I actually continued. I actually turned in the rough cut of my documentary at Lehigh, so stop there. So I was like, Whoa, I still have to finish a final version of it. So I finish that in my first year at Cornell University and then my dissertation actually I was going on tour and I was really, I thought my dissertation was going to be making a part two of this film and doing another film, but it didn't really work out that way.
00;08;31;10 - 00;09;01;00
Nadia Sasso
So I was taking a lot of Anthro classes and Anthropology department, and I was finding when I released the film at Cornell and it was on I went on tour while I was at Cornell, I started in this anthro course being in the field in a different I started looking at tours, the field. And so I started analyzing the reactions to the film, film reception, what people were saying on social media, and then also what it was like when I went to do my field research in Sierra Leone.
00;09;01;07 - 00;09;09;11
Nadia Sasso
And then this film just became a an impetus or kind of segway into my this as well.
00;09;09;11 - 00;09;16;04
Erica Machulak
Person So your research was actually kind of a critical look at the reception of your own Master's thesis?
00;09;16;24 - 00;09;44;20
Nadia Sasso
Yeah, that was about a chapter or two. And then I had another chapter on, so my dissertation was very nontraditional. It was very mixed as well in the format it was written. So at the first chapter, there was a chapter on family as a unit or structure, and what did that mean when you talk about identity for first and second gen. Then there was a chapter on audience reception, including the social media and actually what was happening in the audience.
00;09;45;06 - 00;10;10;02
Nadia Sasso
Then I had a chapter on doing field research in Sierra Leone, and what did that look like in the struggles that I had with trying to fit, make my work seem more seemingly academic, but it just wasn't working out that way. The struggle of doing that and imposter, and all the different identities that impact that and unpacking that whole situation.
00;10;10;02 - 00;10;31;17
Nadia Sasso
And then I had a chapter on fashion. And what does that say about your identity? And how that all came together was just how the thread was, how identity and how people see you or you see yourself and the community really impacts the work that you're doing and how you're perceived, if that makes sense.
00;10;32;02 - 00;10;39;25
Erica Machulak
That's amazing. Did you face any challenges sort of selling that as a dissertation to your committee, to the administrators at your school?
00;10;41;05 - 00;11;06;10
Nadia Sasso
I did, but I ended up finding a chair who was just really supportive. And she actually and I found someone and then I found two others outside of my department who spoke to the Anthracite and another one who spoke to the fashion side, another one who spoke to the larger African diaspora. And once I had the great that great team, it got a lot easier.
00;11;06;24 - 00;11;14;13
Nadia Sasso
But before it was hard to even figure out who was going to be on my committee and if what I was doing made sense.
00;11;16;04 - 00;11;29;01
Erica Machulak
And how what was the process like of finding those people? What would you recommend to other people who are trying to think a little bit more outside the box or do something a little bit different with their research? How did you find the people that you wanted to work with?
00;11;30;21 - 00;11;53;23
Nadia Sasso
In the beginning I was struggling because was sounded, like the individuals. That would be a great fit for me personality wise and in other nuances, it just didn't work out. So I had to go back to the drawing board and I realized that I am my worst critic. So and I'm already hard on myself.
00;11;53;23 - 00;12;22;21
Nadia Sasso
So I realized that I wanted people who knew how to encourage me and motivate me without beating me up, if that makes sense, or making me feel crazy or like I should know things already are stupid. So I really. First I went for how people brought the best out of me. So the classes, the teachers that I kind of work well with or that I felt like it was effortlessly from me to get their work done because they, and I was excelling with them.
00;12;23;07 - 00;12;39;21
Nadia Sasso
Those are the five people that probably need to be on my committee. And then I looked at what I was working on and how I could relate to them, and then I went from there, but I put my mental health first in choosing my committee because I wasn't really mentally in the best place while completing my dissertation.
00;12;41;12 - 00;12;43;14
Erica Machulak
Do you want to talk about that more?
00;12;45;07 - 00;13;29;18
Nadia Sasso
I was saying that I wasn't mentally in my best place because that was my first really deep, deep dove with depression and anxiety. And I think that was a combination of a few things personal with my mom being sick, also being in Ithaca and not really understanding that seasonal affective disorder is really real or being in dark places and not having much access to the sun, to just feeling like I was also being academically hazed or feeling like I had to prove myself to everyone and everyone having anxiety about performing well at this predominantly white and Ivy League institution.
00;13;29;27 - 00;13;42;29
Nadia Sasso
And so I had to kind of just let all of that go and redesign what that space would be like for me and who I wanted to build in that space with, to protect myself.
00;13;43;12 - 00;13;44;07
Nadia Sasso
And my sanity.
00;13;45;04 - 00;14;09;06
Erica Machulak
Yeah, that resonates with me. That makes a lot of sense. It's sometimes you see people on paper who you think scholarship wise, if you're looking at our CVs, We should be the ones who are in the room together. We should be the ones..but sometimes it's the people who are thinking on the same creative wavelength or have the same kind of humanity wavelength that are the ones that really enable you to be your best self and your best scholar.
00;14;09;28 - 00;14;20;23
Erica Machulak
Yeah. So can I ask you as a woman of color, what was it like to create space for yourself in a kind of unique?
00;14;21;13 - 00;14;43;16
Nadia Sasso
It was hard and it almost was tiring, to be very honest, especially coming from other predominately white institutions where you constantly have to do that. So I think at this point I'm not going to lie, at Cornell. I was pretty much over it. I don't think I was as engaging as I was in my previous two institutions, to be very honest.
00;14;44;05 - 00;14;49;02
Nadia Sasso
I kind of got my work done.
00;14;49;02 - 00;15;19;11
Nadia Sasso
And I also was a parent, so I didn't really have that extracurricular time that I used to to create those spaces. But I did create I did work on creating genuine friendships where we could support each other in whatever way we could. So I have two very close friends that developed at Cornell, and to this day we still support each other and cheer each other on and I would say a handful actually, and just kind of building a very close knit community, I would say would end up saving me a little bit.
00;15;19;17 - 00;15;57;04
Nadia Sasso
I did. I was a graduate R.A. And while the students weren't the same age as me or we weren't necessarily friends, I did try to create a space for the students to kind of explore things, you know, the general population, to explore things that they wouldn't normally get to see or that's foreign to them, but also for the students of color, making sure that they always felt like they could confide in me or they can come and get support, or they could come get a home cooked meal, or they could just feel good about themselves while they were there because they were somebody, within that living environment that look like them.
00;15;57;04 - 00;16;14;02
Erica Machulak
It's amazing. I mean, you had so much going on, on your own, and the day for anyone is already just hard not to mention. Also having a family, taking ownership of that other piece for other people. Do you find that energizing or exhausting or both?
00;16;15;09 - 00;16;37;22
Nadia Sasso
I think it's a little bit of both. I wouldn't say it wasn't, I'm learning now at this age that it's a part of who I am because of the community that I come from. I come from a culture where it's less about you as an individual and more about the community. And so it becomes exhausting when you don't take care of yourself and when you're not finding balance within that.
00;16;38;01 - 00;16;58;11
Nadia Sasso
So there's a fine line and that has always been a struggle for me. But I was socialized to think about my community first at all times. So it was also a little bit energizing in a way. But also I think what kept me energized with the fact that I was once in their place and I'm just doing what I wish somebody would have done for me.
00;16;58;28 - 00;17;07;27
Nadia Sasso
And I also believe that you bless others, you your life becomes easier and you get more blessings in return. Like, everything isn't about, like, money and, you know.
00;17;08;09 - 00;17;23;12
Erica Machulak
All right. So that's a really interesting note to pivot on. Tell me about how this community first mindset and the acknowledgment that everything isn't about money, but also the management that, you know, people got to make a living either translate to your business now?
00;17;24;04 - 00;17;48;04
Nadia Sasso
So the community first mindset translates into my business now because I have a team of about six or seven people. It's more about how we work well as a team and how there is some type of mentorship and growth for everyone and that everyone's voice is being heard. So really, making everyone feel like they belong and they deserve to be in the room.
00;17;48;25 - 00;18;09;12
Nadia Sasso
And I think that works because it builds more confidence, whether you're an undergrad graduate or graduate student or you're already set in your career, you kind of feel like there's a place for you, for you to perform and do your best work, which in turn, I think if everyone feels good about themselves and they come to work as their whole selves, then there is good.
00;18;09;14 - 00;18;14;01
Nadia Sasso
They're going to do great work and the revenue will be easy.
00;18;14;01 - 00;18;20;26
Erica Machulak
And so are there takeaways from your experience working within other people's systems that have enabled you to build your system better?
00;18;22;14 - 00;18;48;15
Nadia Sasso
Yeah, there are take aways, I would say, you know, seeing your employees celebrating them, you know, showing them that you appreciate them, that's something that I really try to take in and also really understanding who they are and how they're doing. So I try to implement that for sure. I try to bring the human humanist perspective to my work environment and my company for sure.
00;18;49;25 - 00;18;53;20
Eria Machulak
In the sense of seeing people who are in other senses as well.
00;18;53;20 - 00;19;31;16
Nadia Sasso
In the sense of seeing people and also, you know, just giving them that room to give grace. But also not... if you're sick or you're not feeling well. Yeah, we may need to get certain things done, but it's better you take the time off and come back when you feel good. Or if you're having a bad day, then let's figure out another solution or doing something else, not saying that we're going to be over accommodating every day, but really just making sure that that's at the forefront.
00;19;32;01 - 00;19;35;26
Nadia Sasso
So that way we can we can get the most things done.
00;19;37;17 - 00;19;52;18
Erica Machulak
It sounds like you really try to create an environment where every single person on your team can be their whole self at work. That's what I'm hearing. So let's talk about the work itself. Nadia, what services do you offer?
00;19;52;18 - 00;20;17;21
Nadia Sasso
So I offer production services. So whether that's from producing to directing curated creative projects and that can range from film to a photo shoot to a commercial. And in a lot of the content that I like to work on is content that, A, has a storytelling element, but B, I love it even more of has a cultural element to it as well.
00;20;18;03 - 00;20;34;19
Nadia Sasso
I also do like writing as well as research for different entities and writing, consulting and research, consulting as well. And I feel like I'm missing a couple of things, but I essentially do a lot.
00;20;35;03 - 00;20;43;22
Erica Machulak
Okay, cool. So without breaking any privacy, can you give us examples of the kinds of projects that you work on?
00;20;43;22 - 00;21;04;19
Nadia Sasso
Well, I guess I can talk about projects that I'm working on and that I'm developing that'll come out this year. I'll do that instead just because I don't know what I'll be breaking. So for me, I'll be coming out with a podcast with a colleague of mine that should be dropping next month, and it's unboxing layers of blackness.
00;21;04;19 - 00;21;37;06
Nadia Sasso
I'm also coming out with an app with another partner of mine, Blaytor Box, which is Black Create, stands for Black Creator. And it's an app where you can discover black creatives all over. So in the process of developing that and that should be released, a soft launch will come Juneteenth, I believe, if all goes well. And so those are the type of things that I have just been working on and is producing a lot of personal creative content, but again, working with different brands on that as well.
00;21;39;00 - 00;21;45;05
Erica Machulak
And how does your experience from your scholarly work translate into the services that you offer? How much overlap is there?
00;21;46;06 - 00;22;12;09
Nadia Sasso
And there's actually a ton of overlap because again, I like to do a lot of creative stuff, but also culturally relevant topics. And so for example, working with PBS, I provide them a lot of content consulting and research advice there for their web series Say It Loud, which is about black history and a way to make it more fun and interesting for a younger generation.
00;22;12;09 - 00;22;19;14
Nadia Sasso
And so that is me bringing in the creative as well as the academic side, making sure facts and content is all accurate.
00;22;11;22 - 00;22;25;23
Erica Machulak
So what would you recommend to you on the first day of your piece, or even when you started thinking about applying for a Ph.D.? What advice would you give yourself? Looking back?
00;22;25;23 - 00;22;28;23
Nadia Sasso
Well, funny enough, I realized I actually didn't even want to do a PhD.
00;22;30;17 - 00;22;51;09
Nadia Sasso
I was actually I had a plan of moving to Sierra Leone. I was actually already there. But then Ebola hit and my parents were freaking out and then they were like, If I don't come home, they're going to send the U.S. Embassy to take me back. So my backup plan was okay, if that didn't work. My backup plan was the Ph.D.
00;22;51;09 - 00;23;17;10
Nadia Sasso
So that's how I ended up doing the Ph.D. because it was a backup plan. And what would I say first to myself is that I wish I said was, "put your mental health first at all times". And in reminding myself that everybody's journey is different because you get into a space where you start collecting everyone's anxiety and what they think you should be doing and how you should be doing it.
00;23;17;10 - 00;23;22;05
Nadia Sasso
And the reality is, you only know what works for you.
00;23;22;05 - 00;23;28;15
Erica Machulak
And so building your own business. Has it been easier to put your mental health first?
00;23;28;15 - 00;23;54;29
Nadia Sasso
It's been easier in that I'm doing what I'm passionate about. So that stimulating in a way, you know, it's been a little bit harder in a way because it is your business. So you're kind of now responsible for others and you don't want to, you know, let them down. So it's about finding balance, but it isn't as draining because you're doing what you're passionate about.
00;23;54;29 - 00;24;04;29
Erica Machulak
One final piece of advice I would love to know is your take on how do you ask for what you deserve too?
00;24;04;29 - 00;24;25;07
Nadia Sasso
I think you ask for what you do as well. How I ask for what I deserve. I can speak for myself. I'm always constantly reevaluating. I mentioned before, what do I bring to the table? What do I have to offer? And then I also, when it comes to the more business and practical side, that's more theoretical. I'm looking at what do I need to survive?
00;24;25;07 - 00;24;51;22
Nadia Sasso
How much do I need to make from a yearly, quarterly, monthly, weekly, daily basis in order to live a lifestyle that takes care of myself and those that I'm responsible for? And so one time merge all of that together. That really is what kind of your worth, now you know what to ask for and now you know how to kind of settle your, your ask when working with others.
00;24;51;28 - 00;24;52;08
Erica Machulak
Mm.
00;24;52;20 - 00;24;58;26
Nadia Sasso
And of course there's more details and more nuances to that. But I will say the oversimplified answer is that.
00;24;59;26 - 00;25;09;21
Erica Machulak
Okay. Any final advice for, for our listeners and anything you think we haven't covered here that you really want to make sure get said?
00;25;11;11 - 00;25;40;15
Nadia Sasso
I would say that don't be afraid to take risks because success comes from risks and from failure, don't fear that either and to always, go after what it is that you want. And lastly, I know that a lot of times we're socialized to think that we can only do one thing or we should only check one box.
00;25;41;02 - 00;25;46;06
Nadia Sasoso
But you can be all that you can be and it can still work out in your favor, you know.
00;25;46;07 - 00;26;06;13
Erica Machulak
So yeah, I love that. I think that that riskiness is often hard for us to think through, but at the same time, like as a scholar, there are lots of risks that you're taking all the time. So thank you. And I thank you for your time and for all your insights and really, really grateful that you could be here with us.
00;26;06;13 - 00;26;09;09
Erica Machulak
This is this is wonderful and appreciate your time.
00;26;10;06 - 00;26;11;13
Nadia Sasso
Thank you so much.
00;26;11;25 - 00;26;14;08
Erica Machulak
My pleasure.
00;26;20;08 - 00;26;46;26
Erica Machulak
We hope you enjoyed this episode of The Hikma Collective podcast. I'm your host, Erica Machulak, writer, medievalist and founder of Hikma. The production of this episode was led by our fearless creative director, Sophia van Hees, in collaboration with Nicole Markland, Dasharah Green, Eufemia Baldassarre and Matthew Tomkinson. Matthew composed the original music you hear now in his capacity as the 2022 Hikma Artist in Residence.
00;26;47;28 - 00;27;15;29
Erica Machulak
This podcast has been made possible with generous support from Innovate B.C.,Tech Nation and the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada. You can find show notes, links and transcripts at www.hikma.studio/podcast. Hikma is situated on the traditional, ancestral and unceded territory of the ən̓q̓əmin̓əm̓ speaking Musqueam people. We are grateful to be here and to share this space with you.
00;27;16;23 - 00;27;26;26
Erica Machulak
Our speakers, team members and listeners are based all over the world and wherever you are listening, we encourage you to learn more about whose lands you're on.
